Level Presentation / 'Shout Out'
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trickstapriest
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:30 pm
Level Presentation / 'Shout Out'
I thought (with the possibilities of old levels being stacked far behind because of the creation-date organization, or the sheer, sheer amount of inane and pointless levels crowding out the gems) that people could use a space to shout out a good find or a level they've completed. The purpose of this is to show challenging or interesting levels... levels that are disorganized or badly hashed together "uberkilla" maps need not apply.
The difference is that here you can explain why you liked a level, and your opinion won't get anonymously averaged with everybody else's the way the star rating does. The stars are great as a quick reference, but they have their limitations; you can't always tell if a low-rated level is that way because people think it's too hard, or too easy, to too cliche, or too ugly, or whatever.
First of all, let me state that I based my previous post, and this one on the assumption that you're talking about something that would appear on the Gallery pages.
With all due respect, IMO it wouldn't serve the purpose you envision. Ratings and comments are extremely subjective opinions based in part on the players age, skills and ability to appreciate the design complexities.
My personal gauges are the "Success rate" and "Plays", and to a lesser degree, the "Type" because an Art level should be viewed from a different perspective than an Action level.
The success rate in combination with the star rating are a pretty good indicator of how much the general population appreciated the level. It's not fool proof but since it is an average of all plays, it's a fair indicator of the quality of the level.
I don't mean this sarcastically, but I don't believe that the average player will care enough to take the time to read what someone else thinks.
I'm reasonably sure that many of the less talented designers (who probably rate their own levels 5 star) would be inclined to post lofty comments about their not so hot level. So how do you sort out who is giving an accurate representation of the level?
The other issue would be how do you manage the comments to make sure they are relevent and not filled with profanity?
I can just picture little Billy getting upset because he couldn't beat a level, and leaving a comment like "This level sucks and @#$% you". Or playing his buddies level that truly does suck, and leaving comments like "Billy rocks and is the bestest Zeta Flow Mega Monster Master Designer that ever lived"
MD would end up spending more time reviewing comments than making updates.
And then there is the spam issue....
With all due respect, IMO it wouldn't serve the purpose you envision. Ratings and comments are extremely subjective opinions based in part on the players age, skills and ability to appreciate the design complexities.
My personal gauges are the "Success rate" and "Plays", and to a lesser degree, the "Type" because an Art level should be viewed from a different perspective than an Action level.
The success rate in combination with the star rating are a pretty good indicator of how much the general population appreciated the level. It's not fool proof but since it is an average of all plays, it's a fair indicator of the quality of the level.
I don't mean this sarcastically, but I don't believe that the average player will care enough to take the time to read what someone else thinks.
I'm reasonably sure that many of the less talented designers (who probably rate their own levels 5 star) would be inclined to post lofty comments about their not so hot level. So how do you sort out who is giving an accurate representation of the level?
The other issue would be how do you manage the comments to make sure they are relevent and not filled with profanity?
I can just picture little Billy getting upset because he couldn't beat a level, and leaving a comment like "This level sucks and @#$% you". Or playing his buddies level that truly does suck, and leaving comments like "Billy rocks and is the bestest Zeta Flow Mega Monster Master Designer that ever lived"
MD would end up spending more time reviewing comments than making updates.And then there is the spam issue....
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trickstapriest
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:30 pm
I'm just hoping for a place where people spend more time working on this game can say what level they played that they liked, instead of sorting through the hundreds of levels up there that aren't any good, and for people who make a level 'late' to post their level where it can be noticed.
I realize that many of the spawn-levelers could just post a dozen negative comments about trash, but the point of this isn't to flame other people's levels, but to say what they like. Just to point out a level they like, nothing more really. This isn't a "comments" section for every level you play; just one that you notice and like.
I should also note that most of the people who make levels don't seem to have a forum account, or at least not one corresponding to their creation name. This means that little Billy might not actually pay any attention to the forum at all.
I just want a place where I can scroll over, like the 12 o'Clock, and pick out some levels to play. Other than the gallery, which is flooded with nonsense. Nonsense is alright, it's how people learn to make these levels in the first place. But that doesn't mean I like that to be my only means of picking out a book. That's like using google to find everything you want, instead of linking from relevant sites to other relevant sites. (not to bash google, but searching when you don't even know what you want is trouble by it's nature)
I'd like to tap into the people who actually spend the time to talk about level-making, who have the interest in improving their mapmaking abilities and spend time to read the forums at all, and see what levels they've liked.
The worst that could happen is this thread gets so flooded with nonsensical flames or pointless levels it needs to be deleted or ignored.
I realize that many of the spawn-levelers could just post a dozen negative comments about trash, but the point of this isn't to flame other people's levels, but to say what they like. Just to point out a level they like, nothing more really. This isn't a "comments" section for every level you play; just one that you notice and like.
I should also note that most of the people who make levels don't seem to have a forum account, or at least not one corresponding to their creation name. This means that little Billy might not actually pay any attention to the forum at all.
I just want a place where I can scroll over, like the 12 o'Clock, and pick out some levels to play. Other than the gallery, which is flooded with nonsense. Nonsense is alright, it's how people learn to make these levels in the first place. But that doesn't mean I like that to be my only means of picking out a book. That's like using google to find everything you want, instead of linking from relevant sites to other relevant sites. (not to bash google, but searching when you don't even know what you want is trouble by it's nature)
I'd like to tap into the people who actually spend the time to talk about level-making, who have the interest in improving their mapmaking abilities and spend time to read the forums at all, and see what levels they've liked.
The worst that could happen is this thread gets so flooded with nonsensical flames or pointless levels it needs to be deleted or ignored.
I understand what you mean but I don't think there's an easy way to separate the wheat from the chaff. Sorting by rating is a good easy option. Another option is to create a Notepad file and paste the links of levels you like into it as you run across them. But the only gauranteed way of finding the best levels is to work your way through the list, one by one. As much as I respect other peoples opinions, I'm still the best judge of what I like. Even a bad level has something to teach you. Unfortunately there are probably at least 500 versions of level 9 
You could create a Favorite Levels topic, asking people to add a favorite ID to the list. MD started something like that but only one person contributed to it. I think that part of the reason is that everyone has other obligations and finding the time isn't that easy.
One last thought is to go to the Memberlist (see the banner at the top of this forum page), and copy and paste the Usernames into the galley search filter. Many of the users are among the better designers.
I'm not so sure you're right when you say that most of the people who make levels don't seem to have a forum account. There are currently 59 registered users but it seems like only a handful post regularly. On the other hand, the forum members who do post and make levels are among the best designers. What better way to get feedback than from cream of the crop.
Hope that is helpful or gives you some ideas. Good Luck.
You could create a Favorite Levels topic, asking people to add a favorite ID to the list. MD started something like that but only one person contributed to it. I think that part of the reason is that everyone has other obligations and finding the time isn't that easy.
One last thought is to go to the Memberlist (see the banner at the top of this forum page), and copy and paste the Usernames into the galley search filter. Many of the users are among the better designers.
I'm not so sure you're right when you say that most of the people who make levels don't seem to have a forum account. There are currently 59 registered users but it seems like only a handful post regularly. On the other hand, the forum members who do post and make levels are among the best designers. What better way to get feedback than from cream of the crop.
Hope that is helpful or gives you some ideas. Good Luck.
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trickstapriest
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:30 pm
Ah! I didn't see the Favorite Levels topic that MD created. Or maybe I missed it. But yes, the whole point of THIS thread is a Favorite Levels topic. That's what the point of this thread is until it got hopelessly sidetracked in discussion. ;p Sure, there are levels I can learn something from. That's why I like the option of trying them when I want to. I don't want to play the 500 versions of Level 9 made by the same person or others like him every time I try and search the gallery.
I'd love to be able to filter (or filter out) users, though unless we can filter out users on the gallery, I'm going to have to go by the names I know, and obviously miss good levels by people I've never heard of. Even if we filter out people, we can only do it one at a time. That's extremely tedious and I know I don't have time for it.
I just don't know why this thread seemed to get this badly misunderstood. Please toss out a level you like here, anyone! If I don't like it, it's not like I'm going to ban you from the book club. It's entirely subjective, there's no reason to be upset by that. :/
I guess let me be more concise about my complaint. They aren't going to spam the forums because they are busy spamming the gallery. This is killing the game for all but the most devoted and those who are spamming it in the first place, as casual gamers like me have no time to deal with all this. I realize I don't have to play, but it seems foolish not to at least try something to help people who want to see decent levels. Thus, if you find a level you like that you don't think is spam, please post it here for us who want to see! For feedback, someone can make a new thread and give suggestions on the individual level.
I shouted this one out before, I'll toss it again to start. I thought this one was clever and uniquely made me feel a strong sense of vertigo of all things as I played it...
http://zetaflow.skylogic.ca/ZetaFlow.php?ID=3196
I'd love to be able to filter (or filter out) users, though unless we can filter out users on the gallery, I'm going to have to go by the names I know, and obviously miss good levels by people I've never heard of. Even if we filter out people, we can only do it one at a time. That's extremely tedious and I know I don't have time for it.
I just don't know why this thread seemed to get this badly misunderstood. Please toss out a level you like here, anyone! If I don't like it, it's not like I'm going to ban you from the book club. It's entirely subjective, there's no reason to be upset by that. :/
I guess let me be more concise about my complaint. They aren't going to spam the forums because they are busy spamming the gallery. This is killing the game for all but the most devoted and those who are spamming it in the first place, as casual gamers like me have no time to deal with all this. I realize I don't have to play, but it seems foolish not to at least try something to help people who want to see decent levels. Thus, if you find a level you like that you don't think is spam, please post it here for us who want to see! For feedback, someone can make a new thread and give suggestions on the individual level.
I shouted this one out before, I'll toss it again to start. I thought this one was clever and uniquely made me feel a strong sense of vertigo of all things as I played it...
http://zetaflow.skylogic.ca/ZetaFlow.php?ID=3196
I believe the guilty party is ME. I totally misunderstood what you meant. I thought you were asking for a way to comment in the gallery.trickstapriest wrote: I just don't know why this thread seemed to get this badly misunderstood.
I will delete all my posts for this topic after you've had a chance to read this, and let you start over clean here.
My sincerely humble apologies amigo.
UPDATE:
Apparently I can't delete my previous posts once they have been replied to.
I think that since you are the author of the topic, you might be able to delete the whole topic and start a new one though. I don't have any problem with that.
Sorry for the confusion trickstapriest and swartzer