When less is more - placement over quantity

Geiss · Post by **Geiss** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:48 pm

I have found that the optimum number of missile launchers is a number between three and four. When placed apart, their effectiveness is much higher then if they were clumped together. Another concept to improve and lengthen gameplay while being minimalistic to reduce lag is to include puzzle aspects such as switches. To illustrate these ideas together I created Four Corners which has only 8 weapons - 4 single shots which aim at the ship and 4 missile launchers in the corners.

http://zetaflow.skylogic.ca/ZetaFlow.php?ID=3020

Hopefully this level will be low lag but remain challenging. It does play on the short side if you know what you're doing but I prefer the shorter arcade style of level design. Feedback and discussion would be appreciated, as would be links to other creative but minimalistic levels.

trickstapriest · Post by **trickstapriest** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:58 pm

That was a fun and interesting level. I admit I have a bad habit of making far more than the engine should be able to handle with -any- mapmaking tool... I'll have to learn to zen out at some point. Currently working on a rather complex one indeed, but IF I can get it working it should be interesting...

ThePagemaster · Post by **ThePagemaster** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:45 pm

its fun, but it chews lives up too fast. could u please increase the lives?

Geiss · Post by **Geiss** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:53 pm

I'm still thinking about the right balance of lives but even with the switches Four Corners is a fairly short level.

Redsatori · Post by **Redsatori** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:53 pm

Now that is a fine level. A bit on the easy side, but I am a bit on the crazy side, so it should be fairly difficult for normal players. That is kind of what I stress in my little articles about game design and stuff. You don't really need to have 500000000 rocket launchers or spreadshots; you don't need to have lasers that aim at the ship; and you most definitely don't need 5 billlion of every weapon in order to make a challenging, yet difficult, level.

Geiss · Post by **Geiss** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:55 pm

I am fairly pleased with how this level turned out, Redsatori. I have always believed that less was more when placed properly so that there was proper coverage of the field of fire. I enjoy using the minimalistic approach.

Redsatori · Post by **Redsatori** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:58 pm

Same here, although I am very tempted to make something that lags the player's pc just because everyone else seems to be wanting to do that lately.

I would name my masterpiece: Ode to You Uber Noobers Who Think You Know What You Are Doing!!.

Although, I did come up with a fairly cool puzzle idea which uses roughly 500 spreadshots.... Maybe I will put it up tonite. We shall see.

trickstapriest · Post by **trickstapriest** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:01 pm

I'd have to hit you for that. Nah, not really. My problem is I want things to move, to dance, to spin about. To have the level do some interesting things kinetically... I liked Four Corners, but the lack of moving parts made my guts a little sadder. :/

Geiss · Post by **Geiss** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:06 pm

It is a bit on the easy side but only if you have your missile dodging patterns down. I personally like circle strafing and zigzagging the best, though if I stay in part of the screen too long I sometimes forget about the 4 single shots and I end up getting nailed, lol. Four Corners challenges a players habits and demands that they be observant, accurate and constantly on the move at all times.

trickstapriest · Post by **trickstapriest** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:09 pm

yep. I like. For what it does to the players, it's a real treat to try.

I want to see if I can get some tricks going with rotations and fanning down... it's just be being excessive with objects, but again I really like to pull off some movement/rotation tricks if I can get them working... it's just that whole sine function thing that gets me every time! stupid circular timetable... mutter... mutter...

Geiss · Post by **Geiss** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:10 pm

Moving parts are awesome but I had to leave the core alone if I wanted to park my missile launchers and switches in the corners. I coud have had a rotating satelite I suppose but I felt that would have been a bit much since you need all that room to round up the missiles for easier shooting or to line up a burst of shots on the corner switches.

I'm no good at sine cosine math.

You should check out the level called Art Part 1, I'll edit with a link in a sec.

trickstapriest · Post by **trickstapriest** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:12 pm

right. a rotating satellite'd have been a pain in the ass. particularly for me, because I'm lazy and use auto-aim. It's really bad when you are trying to shoot at some things if you are being rocket-swarmed or the object is far away, but I value being able to shoot at an angle even more.

Geiss · Post by **Geiss** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:15 pm

Placing the switches in the corners was a neat idea because its harder to hit there because of how the aim works. Just one of a few ideas I used to lengthen gameplay.

http://zetaflow.skylogic.ca/ZetaFlow.php?ID=2999

The rotation in this one is awesome but I cringe to think about how much work and math that took to finish.

Redsatori · Post by **Redsatori** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:23 pm

Yeah, adding movement in this game takes quite a bit of mathematics. In addition to understanding how the framerate affects the speeds. If you'd like to see some random movement effects, check out my levels. Quite a few of them use multiple rotations of different objects.

You can find my levels here.

Also, if you are really interested in how to make things move in some not-so-average ways, let me know and I will see what I can do to help you. I started a mini-series on these boards called "Pusking the Limits:: Abstract ZF concepts and techniques." I will be adding more to it as I have time to do so. If you see something in particular you'd like, or you think of something you'd like to implement but don't know how to, you can either message me here, or use the Pushing the Limits thread to postyour questions. I am always happy to help with any efforts to make this great game better.

Geiss · Post by **Geiss** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:35 pm

I remember that Pushing the Limits thread, high quality stuff even if I didn't figure out how to duplicate it. I know you linked a level that showed what you were talking about but if you saved a simple example level like the one in your screenshots so people can see it move I think they would get a better understanding of how it worked. You could also use the sample level title as an advertisment for your forum thread.

One aspect of motion I liked was spinning stuff. A lot of my earlier levels featured rotation. I once made a level called perihelion which featured a 2 buzz saw like things ontop of each other over my core with maybe a satalite. I have since learned how to get an infinite spin using 0,0,0 thanks to your article but at the time I used something like -90,90,0 and 90,-90,0 on the other. I had the speed set to 10. It looked awesome but the gameplay was apparently lacking as it got rated fairly low so I deleted it.